Nissan Pathfinder problems
The Nissan Pathfinder is a range of sport utility vehicles manufactured by Nissan since 1986. Until the third-generation model, the Pathfinder is based on Nissan's compact pickup truck platform which it shares with the Navara/Frontier. The front end of the D21 (first generation) and R51 (third generation) Pathfinder is notably identical with the Navara/Frontier up until the B-pillars.
The Pathfinder was marketed as the Nissan Terrano (Japanese: 日産・テラノ, Hepburn: Nissan Terano) outside North America. Beginning in 2004, the R51 series was marketed internationally as the Pathfinder.
In 2012, the R52 series Pathfinder was released as a three-row crossover SUV based on the unibody Nissan D platform, moving away from the body-on-frame chassis format. The role of a mid-size body-on-frame SUV in Nissan's global lineup was passed to the Terra/X-Terra, which was released in 2018 and based on the D23 series Navara.
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Nissan Pathfinder model years
Common Nissan Pathfinder problems
The Nissan Pathfinder, a crossover/SUV produced since 1986, is known for its reliability. However, like any vehicle, it has faced certain issues over the years. This article, based on search results, outlines common problems with the Nissan Pathfinder, focusing on complaints from owners and available solutions.
- Navigation system problems: The 2017 Pathfinder has been reported to have issues with the navigation display, including freezing controls, a stuck backup camera, and a malfunctioning reverse assist display.
- Transmission issues: The 2005-2010 model years, in particular, have faced transmission problems. The automatic transmissions may fail around 90,000 miles due to a crack in the oil cooler tube, causing coolant to leak into the transmission system.
- Climate system failure: A/C and heating system issues have been reported by many 2015 Pathfinder owners. The climate system may refuse to work, causing significant problems during extreme temperatures.
- CVT issues: Nissan's CVT issues have been widespread, affecting the Pathfinder's transmission system. The CVT system has been reported to be slow to respond, overheat easily, and shutter while accelerating. This can be a safety risk during highway merges and may cause constant stuttering.
- Timing chain issues: Pathfinder owners have reported issues with the timing chain guides, shoes, and tensioners. A loose timing chain can cause rattling or acceleration issues, and even lead to engine failure.
- Engine stalled and doesn't restart: This issue is caused by contaminated contacts in the engine control module (ECM) and the ignition relay in the IPDM. The ECM and the ignition relay will need to be replaced, which is a fiddly DIY job, but can be done with the right parts and online guides.
- Driver's power seat harness fault: The driver's power seat harness can become trapped between the seat lifter mechanism and the metal seat bracket. If left unattended, this can cause damage to the harness and potentially lead to accidents. Separating the harness from where it's trapped or replacing it with a new one can resolve the issue.
- Whining power steering: This issue, which Nissan is largely ignoring, can be resolved by fitting a new insulator on the power steering module. Some drivers have managed to fix the problem this way.
- Gearbox shuddering: This issue, which is a computer programming problem, can be resolved by having the computer checked and software updated at a Nissan dealer.
- Fuel and temp gauges problems: This issue is caused by a failure with the voltage regulator behind the dashboard. Replacing the voltage regulator will sort the problem out.
- Timing chain wear: Later models of the Pathfinder are prone to premature timing chain wear, usually around the 102,000-mile point. Replacing a worn timing chain is a big job, but it's more wallet-friendly to order a new belt and fit it yourself than hand the car over to a mechanic.
- Brake pedal issues: Some Pathfinders have a defect that causes the clevis pin to come loose from the brake pedal and brake booster input rod assembly. This can be resolved by reattaching the clevis pin and securing it into place with a new clip.
In conclusion, while the Nissan Pathfinder is generally a reliable vehicle, certain model years and issues have been reported by owners. Regular maintenance and addressing these issues promptly can help ensure the longevity and reliability of the Pathfinder.
What are the problems with the Nissan Pathfinder?
Most Common Nissan Pathfinder Problems
- Nissan Pathfinder Transmission Problems. According to CarComplaints, one of the most common Pathfinder issues is transmission failure. ...
- Coolant Leaking into Transmission. ...
- Worn Timing Chain. ...
- A/C and Heating Problems. ...
- Faulty Fuel Level Sensor.
Are Nissan Pathfinders good reliable cars?
Quality and Reliability 78.0/100
The 2024 Nissan Pathfinder has a predicted reliability score of 78 out of 100.
How many miles does a Nissan Pathfinder last?
The estimated lifespan of a Nissan Pathfinder is 232,000mi, before reaching the life expectancy upper limit. Fuel type is a major factor when looking into a vehicles lifespan/life expectancy.
What are the best years to buy Pathfinder?
Buy: 2017-2019 Nissan Pathfinder
If you're searching for a newer Pathfinder with good reliability, these three model years are worth checking out. Apart from minor electrical issues, these Pathfinder models have no significant problems.
Percentage distribution of complaints by Nissan Pathfinder years
We have researched Nissan problems and analysed all the complaints filed against Nissan Pathfinder cars and compiled the top 5 most problematic Nissan Pathfinder model years:
- Nissan Pathfinder 2005
- Nissan Pathfinder 2013
- Nissan Pathfinder 2006
- Nissan Pathfinder 2007
- Nissan Pathfinder 2014
Below you can see the percentage distribution of known problems by Nissan Pathfinder model years.
Distribution of the number of complaints by Nissan Pathfinder years
We've also compiled a chart for you with the number of complaints about Volkswagen Jetta cars of certain model years:
Nissan Pathfinder car problems categorized by type of issue
After analysing all complaints related to Nissan Pathfinder , it was concluded that the most common issues with these cars are:
- Power train problems
- Engine and engine cooling problems
- Engine problems
- Fuel system problems
- Air bags problems
The graph below shows statistics for all Nissan Pathfinder vehicle components and the number of complaints received.
Distribution of the number of complaints where the accident occurred by Pathfinder model years
A total of 295 complaints were registered in which the accident occurred. In the graph you can see the distribution of the number of complaints by model year.
Distribution of the number of complaints with fire by Pathfinder model years
There were a total of 50 complaints that resulted in a fire. In the graph you can see the distribution of the number of complaints by model year.
Distribution of the number of complaints with injuries by Pathfinder model years
There were a total of 295 complaints that resulted in a injuries. In the graph you can see the distribution of the number of complaints by model year.
Distribution of the number of complaints with deaths by Pathfinder model years
There were a total of 17 complaints that resulted in a death. In the graph you can see the distribution of the number of complaints by model year.
The NHTSA has received 7073 complaints about various vehicle components related to the Nissan Pathfinder . Below are the 25 most recent complaints reported for Nissan Pathfinder vehicles.
Latest 25 complaints
Nissan Pathfinder 2014
- Date Of Incident: 2023-08-13
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-25
- VIN: 5N1AR2MM0EC
- Components: UNKNOWN OR OTHER
- Summary: 3 of my door handles have broken once before I had taken ownership of the vehicle. Since owning the vehicle those same 3 door handles have broken again. This is a cause for concern because if you were in a motor vehicle accident you wouldn’t be able to get the doors open from the inside of the vehicle. For the past few months I have been rolling the windows down to open the door from the outside handle..
Nissan Pathfinder 2020
- Date Of Incident: 2024-01-02
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-24
- VIN: 5N1DR2CN8LC
- Components: SERVICE BRAKES,FORWARD COLLISION AVOIDANCE
- Summary: My 2020 Nissan Pathfinder SL has once again developed problems with the Emergency forward Brake System. The ABS AEB was replaced in January 2024 at Southwest Nissan in Weatherford Tx . Today, [XXX] the AEB light came back on. This is also the second time I have had to replace the Brake light located under the brake pedal. This is the second time I am reporting this problem to NHTSA. Research on several car repair sites shows this is a common problem with the 2020 Nissan Pathfinder, but NHTSA has failed to issue a recall. The original cost for repair at the dealership was over $4000. Please review and confirm problems with this model and year. This is an ongoing safety issue. Southwest Nissan Weatherford, Tx was where my car was repaired in January 2024. They will be able to provide all documentation. The mechanic also stated in writing that this was a common occurrence with the Pathfinder. Thank you, [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] INFORMATION REDACTED PURSUANT TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. 552(B)(6)
Nissan Pathfinder 2020
- Date Of Incident: 2022-09-01
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-19
- VIN: 5N1DR2CN4LC
- Components: SUSPENSION,UNKNOWN OR OTHER,SERVICE BRAKES
- Summary: I have a 2020 Nissan Pathfinder SL with under 70k miles. I had an awful squeal start, upon stopping. I had a private shop say I needed brakes, pads and rotors. And this began the issue. This was in 22-23. It is currently Oct 24, and I have had 3 sets of brakes pads and rotors. When this began the dealership told me my brakes were wearing and near needing replacement. So I had been alerted by them initially. There are zero warning lamps. Vehicle is available for inspection anytime.
Nissan Pathfinder 2015
- Date Of Incident: 2024-10-19
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-19
- VIN: 5N1AR2MN7FC
- Components: POWER TRAIN,ENGINE,FUEL/PROPULSION SYSTEM
- Summary: $4000 worth of work. 4 visits to a local shop. 3 visits to the Nissan dealership, who claims to have replaced cylinders every time. My engine violently shakes even worse. Has cut off midst driving with no power to crank again. 4 batteries & 4 alternator replacements. Barely press on gas pedal and it shakes the whole car, then smells like something rotting.
Nissan Pathfinder 2013
- Date Of Incident: 2024-09-24
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-17
- Components: POWER TRAIN
- Summary: See attached document for complaint.
Nissan Pathfinder 2015
- Date Of Incident: 2024-10-01
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-16
- VIN: 5N1AR2MM4FC
- Components: AIR BAGS
- Summary: The contact owns a 2015 Nissan Pathfinder. The contact stated while driving at 25 MPH, the front driver's side air bag and the driver's side curtain air bags suddenly deployed without impact. The vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired by an independent or dealer. The manufacturer was notified of the failure. The contact was awaiting a response from the manufacturer. The failure mileage was approximately 61,464.
Nissan Pathfinder 2022
- Date Of Incident: 2024-09-12
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-15
- VIN: 5N1DR3CD2NC
- Components: WHEELS,SERVICE BRAKES
- Summary: The rear breaks wore off really fast at around 10,000 miles as well as all the tires. It was inspected and the mechanic said that it’s normal for the breaks in these cars to wear off quickly. I never recieved any warning lamps about the breaks needing to be changed.
Nissan Pathfinder 2010
- Date Of Incident: 2024-10-15
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-15
- VIN: 5N1AR1NB8AC
- Components: UNKNOWN OR OTHER
- Summary: rear sub frame rusted through. Vans in Mansfield Ohio showed us were were the frame was completely rusted out.
Nissan Pathfinder 2006
- Date Of Incident: 2024-09-11
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-11
- VIN: 5N1AR18U76C
- Components: FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE
- Summary: The contact stated that the company owns a 2006 Nissan Pathfinder. The contact stated that the fuel gauge displayed a full tank, then suddenly displayed that the fuel was empty, improperly displaying the fuel level. The vehicle was taken to the dealer who determined that the fuel level sensor was high causing the fuel pump to fail. The contact was informed that the fuel pump needed to be replaced. The vehicle was not repaired. The manufacturer was not made aware of the failure. The failure mileage was 130,000.
Nissan Pathfinder 2001
- Date Of Incident: 2014-03-10
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-11
- VIN: JN8DR09XX1W
- Components: STRUCTURE
- Summary: The contact owns a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder. The contact stated that the door open warning light was illuminated. In addition, the vehicle dome light remained on. The contact stated when opening the rear door hatch there was an abnormal noise present. The contact related the failure to NHTSA Campaign Number: 01V282000 (Structure). The vehicle was taken to the dealer where she was informed that the remedy parts were no longer available. The vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. The manufacturer was not notified of the failure. The failure mileage was unknown.
Nissan Pathfinder 2022
- Date Of Incident: 2024-10-11
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-11
- VIN: 5N1DR3BD1NC
- Components: UNKNOWN OR OTHER,SERVICE BRAKES,ENGINE
- Summary: My car jerks violently into first gear often. Slow acceleration. Exclamation mark inside a triangle warning light came on and my car wouldn't accelerate over tha 2 miles per hrs. When in park or at a stop light it idles roughly. Rear brakes have been prematurely expired. I have since replaced them
Nissan Pathfinder 2023
- Date Of Incident: 2024-10-01
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-11
- VIN: 5N1DR3DK7PC
- Components: FUEL/PROPULSION SYSTEM
- Summary: Jerking and most of the times lag on first and second gear most mornings..
Nissan Pathfinder 2024
- Date Of Incident: 2024-10-06
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-09
- VIN: 5N1DR3CD9RC
- Components: VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL,UNKNOWN OR OTHER
- Summary: While merging onto the parkway, the gas pedal snapped off during acceleration. There was no warning at all, it just snapped off when I stepped on the pedal. I was fortunate enough to pull over onto the shoulder of the parkway without incident, but I had no way to accelerate the car if I needed to. I was very lucky that nothing happened, but I'm very concerned about driving this vehicle and the potential danger it poses to myself and others if this happens again. I believe this is a serious issue and should be looked into with urgency. I've attached pictures of where the pedal snapped off. It appears to be a cheaply made piece of plastic that completely broke off. There is another picture with the pedal intact and circled in red, you can see an indentation towards the top of the pedal. This is where I believe the pedal broke off from.
Nissan Pathfinder 2022
- Date Of Incident: 2024-06-05
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-07
- VIN: 5N1DR3BC0NC
- Components: SERVICE BRAKES,FORWARD COLLISION AVOIDANCE
- Summary: the car is burning through brakes first brakes was repaired under warranty from nissan at 15k miles now the car needed
Nissan Pathfinder 2017
- Date Of Incident: 2024-10-01
- Date Complaint: 2024-10-06
- VIN: 5N1DR2MN0HC
- Components: EXTERIOR LIGHTING
- Summary: Low beam headlamps becoming to dim to safely see at night resulting in having to replace entire headlamp Replacing bulb made no difference
Latest 5 recalls Nissan Pathfinder
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has issued 138 recalls for different components of the Nissan Pathfinder.You can explore the year of the Volkswagen Jetta you are interested in by selecting it from the list.
- Model: Nissan Pathfinder 2024
- Report Received Date: 2024-03-05
- Manufacturer: Nissan North America, Inc.
- Components: SEAT BELTS:PRETENSIONER
- Summary: Nissan North America, Inc. (Nissan) is recalling certain 2024 Pathfinder and Infiniti QX60 vehicles. The lap belt pretensioner in the left-side front seat belt assembly may be improperly secured, due to a missing rivet. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard numbers 208 "Occupant Crash Protection," 209 "Seat Belt Assemblies," and 210 "Seat Belt Assembly Anchorages."
- Consequence: An unsecured lap belt pretensioner will not properly restrain an occupant during a crash, increasing the risk of injury.
- Remedy: Dealers will inspect and replace the left-side front lap seat belt pretensioner assemblies as necessary, free of charge. Owner notification letters were mailed April 18, 2024. Owners may contact Nissan customer service at 1-800-867-7669. Owners may contact Infiniti customer service at 1-800-662-6200. Nissan's numbers for this recall are PD106 and PD107.
- Model: Nissan Pathfinder 2024
- Report Received Date: 2024-02-27
- Manufacturer: Nissan North America, Inc.
- Components: AIR BAGS:FRONTAL:DRIVER SIDE:INFLATOR MODULE
- Summary: Nissan North America, Inc. (Nissan) is recalling certain 2024 Titan, Frontier, Infiniti QX60, Pathfinder, 2023-2024 Sentra, Versa, Kicks, Infiniti QX50, and 2023 Rogue vehicles. Due to a manufacturing issue, the driver's air bag inflator may absorb moisture, and cause the air bag to deploy improperly.
- Consequence: An air bag that deploys improperly may not protect the driver as intended during a crash, increasing the risk of injury.
- Remedy: Dealers will replace the front driver's air bag assembly, free of charge. Owner notification letters were mailed April 10, 2024. Owners may contact Nissan customer service at 1-800-867-7669. Nissan's numbers for this recall are PD103, PD104, and PMA34.
- Model: Nissan Pathfinder 2023
- Report Received Date: 2023-04-13
- Manufacturer: Nissan North America, Inc.
- Components: SEATS:CRITICAL FASTENERS
- Summary: Nissan North America, Inc. (Nissan) is recalling certain 2023 Rogue, Pathfinder, and Infiniti QX60 vehicles. The driver's powered seat may not be fully secured to the seat frame, causing the seat frame welds to detach from the rear inboard seat bracket.
- Consequence: An unsecured seat with broken welds may not properly restrain an occupant during a crash, increasing the risk of injury.
- Remedy: Dealers will inspect the driver's seat rail clearance, and if necessary, replace the driver's seat cushion frame, free of charge. Owner notification letters are expected to be mailed June 10, 2023. Owners may contact Nissan's customer service at 1-800-867-7669. Nissan's number for this recall is PC966, PC967.
- Model: Nissan Pathfinder 2011
- Report Received Date: 2023-02-10
- Manufacturer: Nissan North America, Inc.
- Components: AIR BAGS:FRONTAL
- Summary: Nissan North America, Inc. (Nissan) is recalling certain 2008-2011 Titan, Frontier, Xterra, Pathfinder, Armada, and 2008-2009 Quest vehicles. The resin emblem on the driver's air bag cover may develop cracks and detach during air bag deployment.
- Consequence: A detached emblem can become a projectile during air bag deployment, increasing the risk of injury to vehicle occupants.
- Remedy: Dealers will replace the drivers airbag cover. Owner letters were mailed December 8, 2023. Owners may contact Nissan's customer service at 1-800-867-7669. Nissan's number for this recall are PC944, PC945, and PC946.
- Model: Nissan Pathfinder 2008
- Report Received Date: 2023-02-10
- Manufacturer: Nissan North America, Inc.
- Components: AIR BAGS:FRONTAL
- Summary: Nissan North America, Inc. (Nissan) is recalling certain 2008-2011 Titan, Frontier, Xterra, Pathfinder, Armada, and 2008-2009 Quest vehicles. The resin emblem on the driver's air bag cover may develop cracks and detach during air bag deployment.
- Consequence: A detached emblem can become a projectile during air bag deployment, increasing the risk of injury to vehicle occupants.
- Remedy: Dealers will replace the drivers airbag cover. Owner letters were mailed December 8, 2023. Owners may contact Nissan's customer service at 1-800-867-7669. Nissan's number for this recall are PC944, PC945, and PC946.
Latest negative Nissan Pathfinder car reviews
Latest positive Nissan Pathfinder car reviews
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Vehicle year: 2011
High marks for style, comfort, and driveability! Although, I would love to see better mileage from a six cylinder. The excellent views to the rear make lane changing a breeze, and the height provides great visibility in all directions.
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Vehicle year: 1996
I bought a used car based partly on Edmund's reviews and I haven't been disappointed. Although the lift hatch could open a tad higher, my son and I are tall and we constantly bump our heads. The engine is a little underpowered and gas mileage could be better, but for a good budget SUV, it's tough to beat. The ride and comfort are okay, but this is still basically a truck and rides and drives like one. I originally bought it as a third vehicle, but I now drive it more than our other cars.
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Vehicle year: 1993
This is one of the best cars I have ever owned! I've been driving it for almost 14 years and it has never given me any major problems. It's amazing! Even after 180,000 miles, it still runs great and I get the same fuel consumption as when it was new. I wish I could keep it forever!
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Vehicle year: 1993
It's a light duty truck that is safe, comfortable, and has many uses that you can handle easily. It's also not expensive.
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Vehicle year: 1993
I recently acquired this vehicle from a farmer in Kentucky. Despite having oversized tires and a salvage title, it looks really cool. As someone in my late forties and retired from a white-collar job, owning such a vehicle is out of character for me. However, I must say that it goes anywhere and achieves much better mpg than your average vehicle. In fact, it performs better than any Land Rover or Tahoe I have ever owned! It has provided me with a new, liberating hobby - I love getting muddy and driving the old Pathfinder. And the best part? It never leaves you stranded!
Are you having problems with your Nissan Pathfinder?
Royal Hickle 2025-08-24
Vehicle year: 2024
After driving my 2023 Pathfinder Platinum for 2,700 miles, I have some user feedback to share. Overall, I'm getting 21-22mpg, but on a recent 400 mile trip, I manually calculated an impressive 27mpg. The noise suppression is better than average and the Bose sound system is mediocre at best. While the handling is good, it feels a bit truck-heavy. The engine is very smooth and miles beyond the Turbo 4's in the Explorer, Highlander and Ascent. The transmission is also very smooth and a big improvement over the outgoing CVT in the model years prior to 2022. The electronic shifter is not intuitive, but I appreciate Nissan's use of buttons instead of touch screen controls. As for reliability, I haven't had any issues to date, but it's still too soon to pass judgment. However, I did experience a left front strut plate failure at only 3,700 miles, which has me questioning the reliability and build quality of the redesigned Pathfinder. I suspect the strut assembly was designed for the standard Pathfinder with 18However, I am able to predict what will happen in the future - if there is one more electrical issue, I will have to sell the car. Unfortunately, this experience has left me with a negative impression of Nissan products and I doubt I will ever purchase one again. I previously owned a 2004 Pathfinder which was a great car. However, with my current vehicle, I experienced a Pro Pilot failure on 6/5/23. While driving in light traffic on the highway, the collision warning indicator came on, and the lane departure and lane correction failed to work. I also received a warning message that the vehicle cabin temperature was too high, and I could not turn off Pro Pilot. I exited the highway, stopped in a safe location, and restarted the vehicle. Pro Pilot was then turned off. It is disappointing that a new vehicle should have electrical issues within 6 months of purchase. On 07/06/23, I sold the vehicle after 7 months due to more electrical issues. I strongly dislike the electronic slap shifter and would not risk taking it through a car wash. Additionally, the ride was rough and truck-like. Overall, it was a waste of money.
Reuben Willms 2025-08-23
Vehicle year: 2001
I love my second Pathfinder! They are such nice looking vehicles and so much fun to drive. Although, I must admit, the mileage could be better. Interestingly, my son still has my 97 Pathfinder and it's still running great with 157K miles on it and using no oil. As for my 2001 Pathfinder, it has 123K miles on it and is running well, except for the ongoing check engine light problems that no one seems to be able to fix. It's been on continuously for 4 years now, despite having had O2 sensors, mass air flow sensors, cat converters, coils, etc. replaced. It can be quite frustrating! I wonder why there hasn't been a recall for this issue, especially considering the number of similar problems listed in these reviews?
Deshaun Heidenreich 2025-08-23
Vehicle year: 2003
I previously owned a model 98 and unfortunately experienced the same issues with my new one. The exhaust needed to be replaced at 75,000 miles, and at 78,000 miles, I had to replace the front wheel bearings and belts. On the bright side, it performs well in snowy conditions and is great for carrying large items from places like Home Depot, such as sheet rock and plywood. However, the back seats are quite cramped and uncomfortable, making it less than ideal for long trips. It's worth noting that the check engine light tends to come on once you hit 75,000 miles due to an Evap system leak, which is a recurring issue with Nissan vehicles. Despite these setbacks, it has never left me stranded anywhere. As for fuel efficiency, I have not been able to achieve the advertised 24 mpg highway and 20 mpg city. Instead, I average around 12 mpg city and 17 mpg highway. Unfortunately, the transmission is now failing at 84,000 miles and the front suspension requires attention once again.
Kayley Rolfson 2025-08-19
Vehicle year: 2004
I must say that I find it quite noisy, especially the wind noise from the sunroof and the rattling from the defroster vents on the top of the dashboard. It seems like a design flaw that could be easily corrected. I was a bit disappointed when the evaporator cannister and vent control valve failed with only 28,000 miles on it, and it cost me $550.00 to fix at the dealer. Unfortunately, I was out of warranty because it's over 36 months old. I reached out to Nissan, but they were unable to offer me any assistance with the cost of repairs. I didn't expect components to fail at such low mileage.
Clint Greenholt 2025-08-18
Vehicle year: 2003
It would be great if the car had 4 wheel disc brakes instead of drum brakes. Also, the headrests move too freely and there seems to be no back hatch release.