2021 Kia Stinger problems
The Kia Stinger (Korean: 기아 스팅어) is a mid-size liftback/fastback manufactured by Kia between 2017 and 2023.
Overview
The Stinger traces its roots to the GT Concept from the 2011 Frankfurt Motor Show and the Kia GT4 Stinger from the 2014 North American International Auto Show. Design work was led by Peter Schreyer and Gregory Guillaume (Kia's Chief Designer) at Kia's European studio in Frankfurt and engineered by former BMW M Vice President of Engineering Albert Biermann, the car was unveiled at the 2017 North American International Auto Show. Biermann is now the executive vice president of performance development and high performance vehicles of the Hyundai Motor Group.
Testing of the car involved over 1,000 kilometres (620 mi) at the Korea International Circuit and 10,000 kilometres (6,200 mi) at the Nürburgring Nordschleife.
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Common 2021 Kia Stinger problems
The 2021 Kia Stinger has received complaints from owners regarding a few common problems, primarily related to the fuel gauge and non-engine electrics.
One of the most reported issues is the fuel gauge not working, which has been reported by multiple owners.
Another issue that has been reported is related to the non-engine electrics. While there are few reported problems with the Stinger so far, most of the issues that have been reported are related to non-engine electrics. This can include problems with the car's infotainment system, power windows, power locks, and other electrical components.
In addition to these issues, there have been two recalls for the 2021 Kia Stinger that are worth noting. The first recall is due to an electrical circuit within the HECU (Hydraulic Electronic Control Unit) that may experience a short circuit condition, which could result in excessive current. This issue could potentially lead to a fire hazard if not addressed.
The second recall is due to a blocked fuel pump nozzle, which could lead to a loss of power while driving. This issue is particularly concerning, as it could potentially lead to a loss of control while driving at highway speeds, increasing the risk of an accident.
While there have not been many reported issues with the 2021 Kia Stinger, it is still important for owners to be aware of these common problems and to take action if they notice any issues with their vehicle. Regular maintenance and servicing according to the service schedule can also help to prevent potential issues from arising.
Is a Kia Stinger a reliable car?
Reported problems with the Stinger are few, so far, with most relating to non-engine electrics, and most models in the Kia range have a good reputation for reliability.
Does Kia Stinger have transmission problems?
If you don't routinely and consistently change your fluids at least every 30,000 miles or so, you may find that your Kia Stinger transmission will quickly slip.
Why is the Kia Stinger not selling well?
However, as shown by sales figures on GoodCarBadCar, the Stinger has not been the sales success that Kia would have hoped it would be. This is likely down to the high price tag for the V6 model when a comparable BMW, Mercedes or Audi is available for the same money or less.
What is the engine issue on the Kia Stinger?
Kia is recalling certain 2019-2020 K900 and 2018-2023 Stinger sedans with a 3.3-liter turbocharged engine due to concerns that the left turbocharger oil feed pipe and hose assembly may deteriorate and leak oil. Over time, that pipe and the assembly may break down because of exposure to heat from the exhaust manifold.
2021 Kia Stinger car problems categorized by type of issue
After analyzing all complaints sent to the NHTSA and researching popular Kia Stinger problems, we found that the most common problems with these 2023 model year vehicles are:
- Service brakes problems
- Unknown or other problems
- Engine problems
- Electrical system problems
- Fuel system problems
The graph below shows statistics for all 2021 Kia Stinger vehicle components and the number of complaints received.
2021 Kia Stinger complaints
The NHTSA has received 14 complaints about various vehicle components related to the 2021 Kia Stinger.
SERVICE BRAKES PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2024-02-21
- VIN: KNAE35LC5M6
- Components: SERVICE BRAKES
- Summary: All 4 Rotors are warped and pads are worn down on a 30K mile vehicle. Have had several mechanics tell me That the pressure proportioning valve hose.might be becoming stuck on just enough to make the rotors get hot and wear down. I have looked online and have read many people having the same issues.Kia has told me there are no active bulletins or recalls for this problem.I have driven sport vehicles 40 plus years and have never had to replace the brakes on a 30k mile car.and it is making the steering wheel shake when brakes are applied at 35-40 Mph.
FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2022-04-21
- VIN: KNAE15LA4M6
- Components: FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE
- Summary: The contact owns a 2021 Kia Stinger. The contact stated while driving at an undisclosed speed and making a turn, the vehicle lost motive power inadvertently. There was no warning light illuminated. The contact was able to restart the vehicle and drove to his nearby residence. The contact stated upon driving the vehicle uphill that same day, the vehicle failed to exceed 2-3 MPH and started losing power. The contact stated that he drove back to his nearby residence. The vehicle was towed to the dealer, where an unknown repair was performed; however, the failure persisted. The contact stated while driving approximately 35-40 MPH, the vehicle lost motive power. There was no warning light illuminated. The contact was able to veer to the side of the road. The contact was able to restart the vehicle and continued driving. The contact stated that the failure recurred several times while driving. The contact received notification of NHTSA Campaign Number: 23V634000 (Fuel System, Gasoline) that he related to the failure; however, the part to do the recall repair was not yet available. The local dealer was contacted. The contact stated that the manufacturer had exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. The manufacturer was made aware of the failure. The failure mileage was unknown. VIN tool confirms parts not available.
SUSPENSION,UNKNOWN OR OTHER,SERVICE BRAKES PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2023-05-24
- VIN: KNAE55LCXM6
- Components: SUSPENSION,UNKNOWN OR OTHER,SERVICE BRAKES
- Summary: Bought this vehicle from Carvana.com and have been trying to get it repaired since then. There is something wrong with the steering/braking/suspension system. According to License Mechanic Derek Hartfield at Monroe (248) 980-3262 after a road test - told me the vehicle is not safe to drive. He attempted to repair vehicle and Carvana denied the repair. Carvana instructed me to take car to Dealership, dealer has a wait list, I have a family and need to work. It feels like no one wants to help, and just keeps expecting me to drive from repair shop to repair shop. I just want to drive or they can take the car back if it is a lemon. At present the car has alot of issues and I dont know where else to turn. Issue: Vibration driving, vibration stopping, sounds awful when slowing down from highway driving, shakes with or without brakes, the rear wheels both lean inward when looking at the vehicle from the rear. Note: There was a sticker on the undercarriage of what looks like a repair on this vehicle on the rear right , which is odd because there is no history of accident. But accordingly, some repair was made on or about [XXX] to the Right Rear portion of the vehicle. I am not a mechanic so this is all frustrating for me. Car has been to shop since [XXX] located at 3939 Rochester Rd, Troy, MI 48083 6 times; +12483853735 - Monroe Mechanic determined vehicle has a bearing issue and is not safe to drive. Carvana denied the claim and ask me to take vehicle to dealer for warranty repair not considering my 6 visits to shop with three repairs. Vehicle was taken to Summit Place KIA on three occasions to make sure if was safe to drive located at 4200 Interpark Dr, Auburn Hills, MI 48326. +12486826002 INFORMATION REDACTED PURSUANT TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. 552(B)(6)
POWER TRAIN,SERVICE BRAKES,ENGINE PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2022-12-09
- Crash: 1
- VIN: KNAE55LC9M6
- Components: POWER TRAIN,SERVICE BRAKES,ENGINE
- Summary: My transmission/engine and brake system failed. I was slowing down to probably 5 mph to make a right hand turn into my driveway from the street when the engine started racing. I heard a loud whine and the car started to speed up. I jammed my foot onto the brake to slow down but did not have the time to try to put the transmission into neutral. The car was not slowing down so I turned right to hit my tree rather than proceed straight and crash into my garage. When I hit the tree there was a large jolt and the car stopped. NO airbags deployed and I felt the impact on my right foot that was firmly on the brake; I checked to make sure I was not inadvertently pressing the accelerator. This same issue with the engine suddenly revving happened one time a year ago but stopped when I put the car in neutral.
VISIBILITY,UNKNOWN OR OTHER PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2022-10-10
- VIN: KNAE55LC2M6
- Components: VISIBILITY,UNKNOWN OR OTHER
- Summary: I was driving on hwy 73 when I heard a sound like a shotgun went off. Glass started falling in the car and on me as the sunroof had shattered. There was no other vehicle in the area and the sunroof was closed.
SERVICE BRAKES, AIR PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2022-08-10
- VIN: knae45lc1m6
- Components: SERVICE BRAKES, AIR
- Summary: The contact owns a 2021 Kia Stinger. The contact stated that the dealer had previously replaced the rotors twice; however, the failure recurred with a metal-to-metal noise while the brake pedal was depressed. The contact stated that while driving at an undisclosed speed, the brakes failed to stop the vehicle immediately. The contact had to downshift manually to slow down the vehicle. Additionally, after driving for a lengthy period of time, the steering wheel would shake and a burning odor was detected while the brake pedal was depressed. The vehicle was taken to the dealer where it was diagnosed that the rotors needed to be replaced. The vehicle was not repaired. The manufacturer was made aware of the failure and informed the contact that the failure was a maintenance issue and provided no further assistance. The failure mileage was approximately 25,000.
ENGINE PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2022-07-01
- VIN: Knae15la2m6
- Components: ENGINE
- Summary: The car started to slow down and once I came to a stand still. The car would not start!
VISIBILITY/WIPER PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2022-02-24
- VIN: KNAE15LAXM6
- Components: VISIBILITY/WIPER
- Summary: When driving in below freezing temperatures, the windshield washer fluid nozzles freeze and prevent the flow of windshield washer fluid when it's needed most resulting in severely impaired visibility and sometimes requiring stopping along the roadway to clean the windshield manually. This condition has happened multiple times, only in freezing temperatures in spite of the use of multiple types of fluid that are all rated for temperatures far below where the freezing is occuring.
UNKNOWN OR OTHER PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2021-12-31
- VIN: knae15la2m6
- Components: UNKNOWN OR OTHER
- Summary: Component/system failure from repair invoice: Perform Campain SC196A New fuse Kit in junction box 1 cause action to take: service campaign 1 correction action taken SC!96/SC196A MULTI FUSE & JUNCTION BOX COVER INSTALLATION 201121R1 FAILED DESCRIPTION: REPAIR KIT MULTIFUS ,,ENGINE INJECTORS #3&4 STUCK OPEN CAUSING FUEL TO DUMP INTO EXHAUST UMBURNED ... FAILED PIPE ASSY FUEL INJECTOR ASSY FUEL MY AND OTHERS SAFETY WAS PUT AT RISK I WAS ON THE INTERSTATE IN RUSH HOUR AND THE CAR STALLED IN THE MIDDLE LANE THICK WHITE SMOKE COMING OUT THE BACK AND GAS SMELL FILLING UP THE CABIN OF THE CAR AND AS I TRIED TO GET TO THE RIGHT SHOULDER THE CAR KEPT STALLING AND WOULDNT START AND CARS FLYING BY WHIZZING BY ME AND BLOWING THE HORN AND COULD HAVE HIT ME FROM THE BACK OR EITHER SIDE COULD HAVE CAUSED A PILE UP AND KILLED ME OR OTHERS. THIS PROBLEM HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED BY OTHER KIA STINGER GT OWNERS ( GOOGLE ) NO WARNINGS NO SYMPTOMS NOTHING THIS HAPPENED FRIDAY DECEMBER 31, 2021
UNKNOWN OR OTHER PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2021-09-09
- VIN: KNAE45LC2M6
- Components: UNKNOWN OR OTHER
- Summary: Exploding/Shattered Sunroof No cars on the road near me at the time of incident, eliminating rock or debris damage Glass shards fell onto me in the cabin of car There was potential for accident due to sudden distraction Dealer has claimed rock damage but this is false Sunroof appears to have blown out upwards from the center Sounded like a bomb went off when it blew No warning signs Car was purchased brand new 5 months prior
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2021-04-25
- VIN: KNAE45LC2M6
- Components: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
- Summary: After failed first fix at 300 miles, wife was driving an ran out of gas on highway around 800 miles on O/D. Told this time the entire instrument/gauge cluster is bad. Dangerous situation to run out of fuel on a highway. Kia roadside assistance driver would not come and get her as she was on an Express Lane. Had to fill up car with fuel myself (after scrambling down highway embankment) while standing in traffic lane (fuel fill cap is on driver's side).
ENGINE PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2021-03-29
- VIN: KNAE35LC8M6
- Components: ENGINE
- Summary: JUST PURCHASED A 2021 KIA STINGER GT AWD NEW ABOUT A MONTH AGO. JUST OVER 1000 MILES ON IT NOW AND ENCOUNTERED A CONCERNING ISSUE. SITTING AT A STOPLIGHT WITH THE AUTO START/STOP OFF, TRACTION CONTROL OFF AND IN SPORTS MODE, I PRESSED THE GAS PEDAL AND THERE WAS A SLIGHT HESITATION FOLLOWED BY A PRETTY FORCEFUL LURCH FORWARD. AS I APPROACHED THE NEXT STOPLIGHT SEVERAL HUNDRED FEET FURTHER AHEAD THE CAR COMPLETELY STALLED OUT. I TOOK IT TO THE DEALER AND THEY COULD NOT DUPLICATE IT... OF COURSE.
SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2020-08-17
- VIN: KNAE35LC3M6
- Components: SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
- Summary: TL* THE CONTACT OWNS A 2021 KIA STINGER. THE CONTACT RECEIVED NOTIFICATION OF NHTSA CAMPAIGN NUMBER: 20V518000 (SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC) HOWEVER, THE PART TO DO THE RECALL REPAIR WAS NOT YET AVAILABLE. THE CONTACT STATED THAT THE MANUFACTURER EXCEEDED A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME FOR THE RECALL REPAIR. NALLEY KIA (7849 MALL PKWY, LITHONIA, GA 30038, (770) 288-5283) WAS CONTACTED AND CONFIRMED THAT THE PART WAS NOT YET AVAILABLE. THE CONTACT HAD NOT EXPERIENCED A FAILURE. THE MANUFACTURER WAS NOT MADE AWARE OF THE ISSUE. VIN TOOL CONFIRMS PARTS NOT AVAILABLE.
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM,FUEL/PROPULSION SYSTEM PROBLEM
- Date Of Incident: 2021-03-16
- VIN: KNAE45LC2M6
- Components: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM,FUEL/PROPULSION SYSTEM
- Summary: BRAND NEW CAR, JUST OVER 300 MILES ON THE ODOMETER. SUDDENLY LOST POWER WHILE DRIVING ON A BUSY MAIN ROAD IN FAIRFAX, VA. WAS ALMOST REAR ENDED (INCHES TO SPARE) AND STRANDED ON THE ROAD. CAR WOULD NOT RESTART. A POLICE OFFICER RESCUED ME AND PUSHED ME TO SAFETY ON A NEARBY RESIDENTIAL SIDE STREET TO AWAIT A TOW TRUCK. TURNS OUT THERE WAS A DEFECT IN THE WIRING FROM THE FUEL SENDING UNIT AND THE FUEL GAUGE WAS REPORTING JUST UNDER HALF A TANK DESPITE BEING EMPTY. THE VEHICLE WAS SO NEW THAT I HAD NOT FILLED IT UP SINCE TAKING DELIVERY. GIVEN THIS WAS A BRAND NEW CAR, SPORADIC DRIVING DUE TO THE PANDEMIC, SHARING THE CAR WITH MY WIFE AND THE FACT THIS CAR IS MUCH LESS FUEL EFFICIENT THAN MY PREVIOUS CAR, I DID NOT REALIZE THE GAUGE WAS STUCK AND WAS NOT AS SUSPICIOUS ABOUT IT AS I WOULD PERHAPS HAVE BEEN IN ANOTHER CAR. MOMENTS EARLIER, I HAD BEEN ON A BUSY HIGHWAY WITH NO SHOULDER DUE TO CONSTRUCTION. IF I HAD RUN OUT OF GAS THEN, IT COULD HAVE BEEN A VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION. UNEXPECTEDLY LOSING ALL POWER AND NOT KNOWING THE FUEL LEVEL IN THE VEHICLE COULD LEAD TO A VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION. I WAS FORTUNATE THAT I DIDN'T GET REAR ENDED, AND THAT THERE WAS A POLICE OFFICER NEARBY WHO CAME ACROSS ME AND HELPED.
2021 Kia Stinger recalls
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has issued 5 recalls for different components of the 2021 Kia Stinger.
- Manufacturer: Kia America, Inc.
- Components: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE:GASOLINE:TURBO/SUPERCHARGER:HOSES/PLUMBING
- Summary: Kia America, Inc. (Kia) is recalling certain 2019-2020 K900, and 2018-2023 Stinger vehicles equipped with a 3.3-liter turbo gasoline direct injection engine. The left turbocharger oil feed pipe and hose assembly may deteriorate and leak oil.
- Consequence: An oil leak in the presence of hot engine components can increase the risk of an engine compartment fire while driving.
- Remedy: Dealers will replace the left turbocharger oil feed pipe and hose assembly, free of charge. Owner notification letters were mailed April 26, 2024. Owners may contact Kia customer service at 1-800-333-4542. Kia's number for this recall is SC300.
- Manufacturer: Kia America, Inc.
- Components: FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:DELIVERY:FUEL PUMP
- Summary: Kia America, Inc. (Kia) is recalling certain 2018-2021 Stinger vehicles. The fuel control valve plunger may stick inside the high pressure fuel pump, causing over-pressurization and loss of drive power.
- Consequence: A loss of drive power can increase the risk of a crash.
- Remedy: Dealers will update the engine control unit software, inspect, and replace the fuel pump as necessary, free of charge. Owner notification letters were mailed December 18, 2023. Owners may contact Kia customer service at 1-800-333-4542. Kia's number for this recall is SC281.
- Manufacturer: Kia Motors America
- Components: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:INSTRUMENT PANEL:FUEL GAUGE
- Summary: Kia Motors America (Kia) is recalling certain 2020-2021 Stinger vehicles. A software error in the instrument cluster may cause an inaccurate fuel gauge reading.
- Consequence: An inaccurate fuel gauge may result in the vehicle unexpectedly running out of fuel and stalling, increasing the risk of a crash.
- Remedy: Dealers will update the software, free of charge. Owner notification letters were mailed December 10, 2021. Owners may contact Kia customer service at 1-800-333-4542. Kia's number for this recall is SC219.
- Manufacturer: Kia Motors America
- Components: FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE:DELIVERY:FUEL PUMP
- Summary: Kia Motors America (Kia) is recalling certain 2020-2021 Stinger vehicles. The fuel pump's jet nozzle may have a plastic burr remaining from the manufacturing process, possibly causing a blocked nozzle and an insufficient fuel supply to the engine.
- Consequence: Insufficient fuel supply to the engine can result in a loss of drive power, increasing the risk of a crash.
- Remedy: Kia will notify owners, and dealers will inspect the fuel pump and replace the jet nozzle housing assembly, if necessary, free of charge. The recall began October 29, 2020. Owners may contact Kia customer service at 1-800-333-4542. Kia's number for this recall is SC198.
- Manufacturer: Kia Motors America
- Park Out Side: 1
- Park Out Side: 1
- Components: SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:ANTILOCK/TRACTION CONTROL/ELECTRONIC LIMITED SLIP:CONTROL UNIT/MODULE
- Summary: Kia Motors America (Kia) recalled certain 2019 Stinger vehicles equipped with 3.3L T-GDI engines on August 27, 2020. On December 30, 2020, Kia expanded the recall population and added certain 2018-2021 Stinger vehicles. While driving, an engine compartment fire may occur in the area where the Anti-lock Brake Hydraulic Electronic Control Unit (HECU) is located.
- Consequence: An engine compartment fire can increase the risk of injury or crash.
- Remedy: Kia will notify owners, and dealers will install a new fuse kit in the electrical junction box, free of charge. Owners are advised to park outside and away from structures as a precaution until the recall repair is complete. The recall began November 30, 2020. Owners may contact Kia customer service at 1-800-333-4542. Kia's number for this recall is SC196.
Negative 2021 Kia Stinger car reviews
Positive 2021 Kia Stinger car reviews
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I really like everything about this car.
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It's fast, classy, full of bells and whistles, and with the engine sound enhanced in the cabin, it sounds mean.
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Love the car, but the dealer experience could use some improvement. Kia wants you to believe it's moving upmarket, but there are some areas that need attention. Dealing with Kia over warranty repairs can be a bit of a hassle, as they are very careful with their spending instead of prioritizing customer satisfaction. It's a shame because the Stinger is such a great car.
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I love the car and its speed, but I do have some concerns. The location of some of the controls is not ideal, and the ride is a bit rough, even for this type of car. I also wish it had a CD player option. However, overall I am happy with my purchase.
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You can get over 20 mpg if you drive in Eco mode, but where's the fun in that? Throw it in Sport Mode and enjoy the ride! I was a bit disappointed that remote start isn't standard in this trim level, especially considering it's 2020 and the price of the car. However, it looks like you can get that feature from their app for a yearly fee of $300.
Additional sources
More sources of information about 2021 Kia Stinger problems:
Any reported Kia Stinger Engine Issues? : r/StingerGT
Jan 25, 2023 ... The only common problems that I know of personally can be shifting delays with the transmission or slight jerking when the car downshifts ...
Stinger reliable? : r/kiastinger
Apr 15, 2023 ... Very reliable and the one in the Stinger uses forged internals. Unlikely the engine will encounter any major issues. When it comes to interior, ...
Common Problems, Issues and Complaints with the Genesis G70 ...
Apr 24, 2019 ... Then there's the Kia Stinger that shares some issues with the G70 from what I heard. Genesis G70 Problems.
Any reason NOT to buy a Kia Stinger? : r/whatcarshouldIbuy
Jul 6, 2021 ... The only preexisting problems are a squeak in the driver's side door seal and a small rattle with the sunroof. I usually have the windows down ...
Other years of Kia Stinger
Are you having problems with your 2021 Kia Stinger?
Kyle Cummerata 2024-09-28
Within the first couple of days, I experienced some lights popping up on the dashboard, which was a bit of a turnoff. But I guess that's what you should expect when purchasing a used car.
Alfredo Keebler 2024-09-16
The car's handling leaves room for improvement, and the braking system could be more responsive. However, it is an aesthetically pleasing vehicle.
Tyree Bogisich 2024-09-13
Although the car has good trunk space, there are several negative aspects that need to be addressed. Firstly, the auto hold problem is a major issue as the engine does not turn on and it takes a considerable amount of time to turn back on. Secondly, the horsepower is weak and the acceleration response is slow, taking around 2 seconds. Additionally, there is no dimming mirror or side mirror defrost heat, and not enough storage space in the front seat. Lastly, there is no engine start button and using Uvo requires a lot of steps, such as taking out the cellphone, turning it on, finding Uvo, logging in, finding the turn on button, and entering the password again. Despite these issues, the car can still be improved to meet the expectations of its users.
Kenyon Koelpin 2024-09-13
Although the car looks great, it did not meet my expectations. Despite purchasing the peppy 2.0t, I found it to be lacking in power compared to my previous 500+ hp V8. However, I appreciate the transmission, which is really good. The interior is also pretty good, although some features are not easily accessible. The rear visibility is poor, and the legroom is only adequate for younger children. Unfortunately, remote start is not available without purchasing the OEM part. Overall, I believe that the car has room for improvement, but I am confident that it will meet the needs of some drivers.
Furman Gottlieb 2024-07-19
I appreciate the stylish design of the car and its performance. However, it falls short of the high standards set by the Kia brand. The build quality could be improved, and there are some issues with the cruise control and rattling in the rear hatch and sunroof. Despite these concerns, the car looks great and has a lot of potential. I understand that every car has its quirks, and I am hopeful that these issues can be resolved. While I may not purchase a Kia product again, I am committed to making the most of my current vehicle for the next year or two.